Import Manager
05-01-2004, 08:14 AM
#0, Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by Accolade on May-21-03 at 02:38 PM
Hey fellas:
Hope everyone is ready and gearing up for a tremendous season. I have a small issue and need some help. After doing the filters, the engine would not start. I bled the filters w/ the hand pump, and then bled the injector; that did not work, so I cracked the valve cover injectors and cranked the engine until fuel came out. Then it started. When I shut her down, guess what, no dice, and repeated the process to get her running again. I spoke with some pals and they said the bladder in the feed pump has failed. It feels dead when I pump it, and air just keeps bubbling out with the fuel on top of the filter. I found the part on the internet, but have a little confusion. The list includes 1. feed pump, 1 gasket, 1 fuel pipe? and 1. gasket qty 10?
Has anyone installed one of the feed pumps, and did you install 10 gaskets somewhere?, also, whats a fuel pipe?
Any and all input is highly appreciated.
Tony
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#1, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by NoSlack on May-21-03 at 04:09 PM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON May-21-03 AT 06:47 PM (PST)
Tony
I don't remember if you're in the San diego area or not. If you are I have an extra pump for my ADAD40 that might be the same one that is used on the 41. If it's the same you're welcome to use it for trouble shooting your fuel problem. The only number I see on it is just below the suction port (20001302 04?0).
You can do a half-ass test on your pump by unbolting it from the engine and take off the suction line. Put your finger over the suction hole and stroke the lever. You sould feel it sucking on your finger like a little kitten. I like to pull it off the engine for this test because the engine will sometimes come to rest with the cam up against the pump arm and keeps the finger lever from working.
Mike
EDIT: Tony, I re-read your post and have a few questions for ya. It sounds like you were doing routine maintenance and the boat was running fine before doing the maintenance. What filters did you change? (engine mounted filter and prefilter) Did you do anything to the fuel pump? Disconnect any hoses? Sound like a big air leak to me.
If you didn't touch the fuel pump I doubt it died just sitting there. If the finger lever on the pump feels like it's not doing anything, crank the engine over for a second to move the cam away from the main finger that sticks into the engine block. If the cam is against the lever it renders the finger lever useless.
Go back and trace your steps. You may have missed a o-ring on one of the filters or not removed the old one when adding the new o-ring and filter.
http://members.cox.net/noslack/pump1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/noslack/pump2.jpg
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#2, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by sharkwaters on May-21-03 at 08:06 PM
In response to message #1
Good advice, If you have a racor- they do sometimes leak air into the system. It is a common problem with them. Use a clear piece of hose between the fuel lift pump and the filter, if there is any air it will be evident. When bleeding the lift pump, open the screw 2-3 full turns- don't stop untill you are certain all traces of air are gone. Lay some paper towels underneath to sop up the fuel. Normally, you don't need to bleed the injectors after a filter change, unless air got to the FIP.
Good luck. Its better to have this happen at the dock or on the trailer, than on the ocean in 5-6 ft seas.
Bob
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#3, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by moo fish on May-22-03 at 05:27 AM
In response to message #2
Just in case anyone needs parts for a 41, give me a shout. I have 6 in storage (various degrees of cannabilization). Has anyone tried the scrubber that Del (boatdiesel.com)has suggested?...rt
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#5, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by NoSlack on May-22-03 at 06:40 PM
In response to message #3
How is your inventory on starters? I think my stator winding insulation is breaking down and allowing some voltage to leak to ground before it gets all the way through the windings.
Some days it turns over a little slow. If I let off on the key and hit it again, it cranks over like crazy.
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#6, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by moo fish on May-22-03 at 06:52 PM
In response to message #5
A couple of starters but different model (gear reduction) than the starter on my 40. And, my starter seems to drag on the first shot, too. I'm in Sacramento until next week but well compare notes later.....rt
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#7, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by Accolade on Jun-02-03 at 09:09 AM
In response to message #1
Mike:
Hope you had a good weekend! I tested the feed pump and it has suction as per your instructions. I checked the engine fuel filter and all looked well, except it was not full? Then I removed the transom hatch and found this flowscan filter. It say's it's not a filter on it, but was so rusted I removed it. I think air was getting in this holding type can? The filter/can is dated 1990....
I will take the pump to a friend today to double check it, and get a new flowscan can/filter as well.
Thanks
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by Accolade on May-22-03 at 03:26 PM
In response to message #0
Mike and Bob:
Thank you very much, I really appreciate your insight. I was in Kona Kai but am on the trailer now until some personal stuff cools down.
I changed the big-not racor- filter first, and then the small one on the engine. I did not remove any hose nor make any unadvised adjustments. After pumping that thing for a long time, I notice a spring type clip that broke off in my hand. Maybe that's why the pump feels dead? It takes a while to fill that first large pupm with fuel. I will back track and check the o rings, that is probably the issue. Also, I will see if I can use a pump for a 40 as well. Lastly, I will turn her over to move the cam and see how that works. I am thankful this happened in the slip and not at sea, and again appreciate your help.
Best regards
Tony
Posted by Accolade on May-21-03 at 02:38 PM
Hey fellas:
Hope everyone is ready and gearing up for a tremendous season. I have a small issue and need some help. After doing the filters, the engine would not start. I bled the filters w/ the hand pump, and then bled the injector; that did not work, so I cracked the valve cover injectors and cranked the engine until fuel came out. Then it started. When I shut her down, guess what, no dice, and repeated the process to get her running again. I spoke with some pals and they said the bladder in the feed pump has failed. It feels dead when I pump it, and air just keeps bubbling out with the fuel on top of the filter. I found the part on the internet, but have a little confusion. The list includes 1. feed pump, 1 gasket, 1 fuel pipe? and 1. gasket qty 10?
Has anyone installed one of the feed pumps, and did you install 10 gaskets somewhere?, also, whats a fuel pipe?
Any and all input is highly appreciated.
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by NoSlack on May-21-03 at 04:09 PM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON May-21-03 AT 06:47 PM (PST)
Tony
I don't remember if you're in the San diego area or not. If you are I have an extra pump for my ADAD40 that might be the same one that is used on the 41. If it's the same you're welcome to use it for trouble shooting your fuel problem. The only number I see on it is just below the suction port (20001302 04?0).
You can do a half-ass test on your pump by unbolting it from the engine and take off the suction line. Put your finger over the suction hole and stroke the lever. You sould feel it sucking on your finger like a little kitten. I like to pull it off the engine for this test because the engine will sometimes come to rest with the cam up against the pump arm and keeps the finger lever from working.
Mike
EDIT: Tony, I re-read your post and have a few questions for ya. It sounds like you were doing routine maintenance and the boat was running fine before doing the maintenance. What filters did you change? (engine mounted filter and prefilter) Did you do anything to the fuel pump? Disconnect any hoses? Sound like a big air leak to me.
If you didn't touch the fuel pump I doubt it died just sitting there. If the finger lever on the pump feels like it's not doing anything, crank the engine over for a second to move the cam away from the main finger that sticks into the engine block. If the cam is against the lever it renders the finger lever useless.
Go back and trace your steps. You may have missed a o-ring on one of the filters or not removed the old one when adding the new o-ring and filter.
http://members.cox.net/noslack/pump1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/noslack/pump2.jpg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by sharkwaters on May-21-03 at 08:06 PM
In response to message #1
Good advice, If you have a racor- they do sometimes leak air into the system. It is a common problem with them. Use a clear piece of hose between the fuel lift pump and the filter, if there is any air it will be evident. When bleeding the lift pump, open the screw 2-3 full turns- don't stop untill you are certain all traces of air are gone. Lay some paper towels underneath to sop up the fuel. Normally, you don't need to bleed the injectors after a filter change, unless air got to the FIP.
Good luck. Its better to have this happen at the dock or on the trailer, than on the ocean in 5-6 ft seas.
Bob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#3, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by moo fish on May-22-03 at 05:27 AM
In response to message #2
Just in case anyone needs parts for a 41, give me a shout. I have 6 in storage (various degrees of cannabilization). Has anyone tried the scrubber that Del (boatdiesel.com)has suggested?...rt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#5, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by NoSlack on May-22-03 at 06:40 PM
In response to message #3
How is your inventory on starters? I think my stator winding insulation is breaking down and allowing some voltage to leak to ground before it gets all the way through the windings.
Some days it turns over a little slow. If I let off on the key and hit it again, it cranks over like crazy.
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#6, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by moo fish on May-22-03 at 06:52 PM
In response to message #5
A couple of starters but different model (gear reduction) than the starter on my 40. And, my starter seems to drag on the first shot, too. I'm in Sacramento until next week but well compare notes later.....rt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#7, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by Accolade on Jun-02-03 at 09:09 AM
In response to message #1
Mike:
Hope you had a good weekend! I tested the feed pump and it has suction as per your instructions. I checked the engine fuel filter and all looked well, except it was not full? Then I removed the transom hatch and found this flowscan filter. It say's it's not a filter on it, but was so rusted I removed it. I think air was getting in this holding type can? The filter/can is dated 1990....
I will take the pump to a friend today to double check it, and get a new flowscan can/filter as well.
Thanks
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4, RE: Fuel Feed Pump
Posted by Accolade on May-22-03 at 03:26 PM
In response to message #0
Mike and Bob:
Thank you very much, I really appreciate your insight. I was in Kona Kai but am on the trailer now until some personal stuff cools down.
I changed the big-not racor- filter first, and then the small one on the engine. I did not remove any hose nor make any unadvised adjustments. After pumping that thing for a long time, I notice a spring type clip that broke off in my hand. Maybe that's why the pump feels dead? It takes a while to fill that first large pupm with fuel. I will back track and check the o rings, that is probably the issue. Also, I will see if I can use a pump for a 40 as well. Lastly, I will turn her over to move the cam and see how that works. I am thankful this happened in the slip and not at sea, and again appreciate your help.
Best regards
Tony