Import Manager
05-01-2004, 07:23 AM
#0, Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-17-02 at 09:37 AM
We received the motor yesturday and will start the removal and install this weekend I will post some pictures if anyone is interested.
Wish me luck
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#1, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-17-02 at 06:51 PM
In response to message #0
Send me as many pics as you can and I'll post them on the project page.
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#2, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-24-02 at 09:19 AM
In response to message #1
Nomad
Did you receive the photos I sent on Monday?
We should have the motor instalation completed this weekend.
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#3, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-24-02 at 02:08 PM
In response to message #2
Got the pictures. Was a crazy week with travel and all. Plan to update the site this weekend. Thanks for the pictures!
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#4, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-25-02 at 02:33 PM
In response to message #0
Russ, Refresh my memory. Are you repowering from 260 gas to 240 yanmar diesel? If so, I'm interested in this project. My brother and I came close to buying a 26 billfisher with inboard gas like you have. Maybe the same boat, red trim- located in marina del rey. Anyway, our boat the TUNACIOUS has a old 41a diesel that runs great, but is slow ( 15.8 kts ) fully loaded. What shop is doing the repower?
Are you staying with the 1 1/4" shaft? What gear are you using and which ratio. What size exhaust? What size for cooling water hose? Did I miss any pertinant questions? Let me know. I would like to check out the job. You can Email me sharkwaters@earthlink.net
Thanks and good luck on this project.
Bob Waters TUNACIOUS
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#5, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-25-02 at 05:31 PM
In response to message #4
To answer some of you questions no this is not the same boat I found this one in Newpot and it has gray trim.
Yes we are going from 260 Volvo Gas to the Yanmar 240 the shaft is 1 1/4 and we are staying with it.
The exaust is 4'' the raw water intake is 1 1/2''
Gear ratio we went with is 2 to 1
The yanmar is shorter than the Volvo you have and should fit fine.
My partner and I will be doing all the work he is a boat mechanic
He works at the Anchor in the Reseda they have been kind enought to allow us to use the yard for a few days.
The motor is in now and we are in the prosses of hooking up all the hoses and such . It should be ready to run next weekend. The prop is the next big question no one seems to know what prop to use. Its has a 18 x 16 three blade now we are going to try it and see what the resuls are. We can change the pitch but dont have room to go larger.
If you have any question you want to ask me please feel free to call me at (909) 830-8383
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#6, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-25-02 at 06:03 PM
In response to message #5
Check out the picture gallery of repowering the TIME OUT!
http://www.followingsea.net/Projects.htm
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#7, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-26-02 at 11:48 AM
In response to message #5
Hi Russ, Thanks for the return message. I saw the pics, Looks great. With 18" D, you may have to try a 4 blade wheel. You get more surface area for the diameter. Diesels are very sensitive to correct prop loading and must be able to run up to a specific rpm when fully loaded. I'm sure your friend and the yanmar people are aware of this. Check out boatdiesel.com. This site has a pretty good prop calculator that has the ability to change variables and get different results. I'm very curious to see what speed you get at cruise rpm. I think you will be very happy with the new package.
Thanks Bob TUNACIOUS
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#8, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-27-02 at 10:39 AM
In response to message #7
Just a note on our progress
The motor is in. We had to cut the rear motor mount blocks 1.5"
And add 1" to the front to line the motor with the shaft. The motor is bolted in. The shaft is connected and the wiring harness is in and hooked up. We completed the hoses and fuel lines late Sunday afternoon. We changed the sea strainer to 1 1/2" and had to move all the pumps of course everything on this motor is on the other side from the Volvo. The big moment came at 4pm Sunday we put 20 gallons of fuel in the tank pumped up the filters and injector pump. I turned the key and she fired on the first revolution it purs nice no leeks.
I think we are ready to put her in the water and figure out the prop.
The motor fits in the compartment front rear with room to spair side to side is great. Top to bottom is very close the hatch insulation touches the bleader bolt on top the fuel filter. Very quit compared to the gas motor.
Its to crowded to try to deal with the prop on Monday at the local ramp it will have to wait for next weekend.
Thats all for now
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#9, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-27-02 at 12:58 PM
In response to message #8
Russ,Alright, Now you're ready for some fun. The mount height issue was the question I forgot to ask about. Do you have room to take pics of your solution? How close did you couple the engine. My 41a only has around 4" from the trans flange to the packing gland, so its tight back there. Are you leaving on the trailer or will you be in a slip. Dana West 'B' dock has 3 blackmans in there now, always room for more.
Bob W TUNACIOUS
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#10, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-27-02 at 03:44 PM
In response to message #9
Bob
I will take a measurment for you and post it on tuesday. Are you thinking of using the Yanmar? If so you will have all the room you need, the motor is much shorter than the Volvo, 41 inches from front to back. The problem was the motor was to short to reach the the flange on the shaft by 1 1/4 inches. I could not slide the motor back and still use the mounts builtup off the stringers. Your blocks will be in a defferent location. Don makes each boat according to the motor it was ordered with. Look at the picture posted with out the motor and tell me if your block are in the same place. I will give you the location of my blocks on Tuesday. We had to use an isolator to take up the space between the trans flang and the shaft.
As for the slip Kelly tells me it will be at least 6 months for me to get a slip. So I will be looking for a slip in Alimeda Bay. Mty partner lives in the valley so thats kind of half way for both of us.
If anyone can help with a slip in that area please let me know. I plan on using the trailer to follow the fish as much as I can.
Talk to you later
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#11, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-28-02 at 04:01 PM
In response to message #10
My partner marc could not wait for next weekend
Late Monday he took the boat to oxnard and launched her.
The motor ran perfict. The prop is not correct of course top speed was 19k. at 3500 rpm.
He putted over to Anacapa Island at 12k put 3 hours on the hour meter
No leaks very smooth no vibrations not as loud as the V8 was.
We are going to try a 18 x 18 four blade. If anyone is interested fuel price in oxnard is 1.25 - 1.20 if you buy more than 150 gallons.
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#12, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-28-02 at 07:25 PM
In response to message #11
Congratulations on a sucessful sea trial Russ. I love it when a project goes right the first time around!
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#13, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-28-02 at 08:35 PM
In response to message #12
Russ, Yeah, we are interested in the yanmar. I'm alfraid we have to nurse the volvo for awhile. We dumped a ton of money on new tower, electronics, eisenglass, bait tank, and caught up on alot of overdue maintenance. Everything runs perfect. We just want to go faster than 15+ kts. Its a bummer when you're on the fly at 2pm, the fish are there and the gps says 67 or so nmiles to Dana Pt, and 3200 rpm gets you 15.8 kts. I never studied the yanmar mount locations, although unless the shaft is replaced or use a isolator as you did, the engine must be moved back to the shaft- I guess. Does your guage panel have exhaust gas temp or turbo boost guages? Is 3500 rpm the rated WOT rpm for the engine?
Thanks again, congratulations and good luck with the prop.
Bob W TUNACIOUS
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#14, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-31-02 at 05:00 PM
In response to message #13
No the panel does not have gages for the gases and so on it has a bank a warning lights and buzzers I am not sure I will add them or not.
I have not had the time to do the measurment this week I will do it this weekend and post it for you.
We have ordered a prop its a 18 x 21 four blade everyone seems to think it will be correct. We should have it the middle of next week.
From what the owners man. tells us we should run the motor at 2800 to 3000 rpm
the top rpm is 3500 with this prop we should be in the 19 knot range at 2800 my fingers are crossed.
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#15, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-02-02 at 04:43 PM
In response to message #14
Ok Bob I have the measurments for the mounts
Measuring from the forward bulkhead back to the forward motor mount we have 16" to the center of the mount and 9" above the stringer to the center of the mount.
The forward and rear mounts are 25" apart and the rear mount is 5 3/4" abouve the stringer.
Hope this helps Let me know
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#16, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on Jun-04-02 at 08:46 PM
In response to message #15
Russ, Thanks for the numbers, this helps alot. I saved the pics of the engine and enlarged with software. My mounts are alot further apart, because the 41 is long. But it is doable. Just for curiousity sake, where did you buy your engine? Did you get on the water this weekend? My dock neighbor in Dana Point thinks he met you at B dock in the west basin a few weeks ago. He has a 1992 billfisher with red trim and a 41B diesel inboard. Our boat is a express, many people don't know its a blackman. Keep us posted on the 4 blade prop trial. What speed are you expecting? Personally I would love 20kts or more.
Bob TUNACIOUS
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#17, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-05-02 at 07:02 PM
In response to message #16
Yes I did meet your neighbor on B dock my brother lives on his boat on b dock.
We are hoping for 19 to 20. The prop will be ready to pick up tomorrow. I am roofing my house this weekend and next. My partner will be doing the testing Saturday. I will let you know what the results are ASAP.
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#18, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-10-02 at 03:55 PM
In response to message #17
Well we installed the new prop and gave it a try Sunday.
with the 18 x 16 three blade we hit the rev limit and top speed was 19 knots.
With the 18 x 21 four blade we hit the rev limit and the speed was the same 19 knots
If anyone knows anything about this what I just said makes no sence.
3700 rpm with the 18 x 16 19 knots
3700 rpm with the 18 x 21 19 knots
I dont know maybe the gearing is wrong Don suggested I go with 1.5 to 1 everyone else said 2 to 1 I went with the 2 to 1 (might have been a mistake)
Any suggestions??
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#19, RE: Re Power
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-11-02 at 06:49 PM
In response to message #18
Correctly propping an engine is a mystery to me. I ran some numbers for you on the boatdiesel site. There are so many variables here. One of the biggest is the hull form. Is a 26 Blackman a 'slow or average planning hull'? The numbers we have on our boat indicate the 26 Blackman is a slow planning hull.
Do you know how much your boat actually weighs? Running weight, full of fuel, full bait system water, full passengers and full of all of the junk we all store on our boats.
Here are the numbers I used.
Hull form: Slow Planing
Weight: 9000 lbs
Length at waterline: 25 ft
Engine: 1
Max output: 240 (Metric HP)
Max RPM: 3600
Duty Rating: Pleasure
Transmission: Straight Drive
Ratio: 2.0:1
Propellor: 18 inch
Blades: 4
Here is what their calculator turned out.
Max Speed: 21.6 kts
Cruise Speed: 18 Kts
Cruise RPM: 2520??????
Recommended prop: 18.6 x 18.9, 4 blade
Doesn't sound too good?
Simply changing the hull form to 'Average Planing' and the waterline length to 26 feet. (waterline length didn't make much difference)gave the following results.
Max Speed: 24.8 kts
Cruise Speed: 20.7 Kts
Cruise RPM: 2520??????
Recommended prop: 18.6 x 21.3, 4 blade
I like this much better and I bet you do too. The most efficient gear ratio for this combination is 1.6:1 but also recommends a 16 X 17 inch prop.
I wish I knew more about how these prop calculators worked and how to determine which hull shape to use.
From a practical standpoint, How does the engine sound and feel? Does it feel like the engine is being loaded or not? My guess is it is not being loaded enough. Does it feel like it has to work a little to get to max rpm? Your slip ratio is probably pretty high. I think you need to add some cup to the prop. Cup will make a big difference in loading the engine. You are not in the position to add diameter and you already have a lot of pitch and with a 4 blade prop you have surface area as well. It might take a couple of tries to get the correct amount of cup in the prop. It took us three tries to get it right.
Let me know if any of these numbers are incorrect and I will run them again.
Good luck
Bill on Tunacious
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#20, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-11-02 at 07:07 PM
In response to message #19
Thank you Bill for that info
No the motor does not feel like its under much of s load at all. More than it did with 18 x 16 the turbo sounds a little louder with the four blade. I cant go any larger 18.5 will not fit we have the min. clearance with the 18
I sent the prop out today the prop man is going to add cup and a litte pitch. I will keep my fingers crossed I dont want to change gears.
Fully loaded she tips the scales at around 8,800 lbs. maybe a little more.
Thanks again I will keep you posted
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#21, RE: Re Power
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-12-02 at 05:29 PM
In response to message #20
More questions
Do you have to have your installation certified by a local Yanmar rep for warranty considerations? If so, who is going to do the work?
Who do you have lined up do the maintenance and repair work? I understand having good local support is very important.
Once you have the proping correct, I'd like to know what your fuel consumption is?
Thanks
Bill on Tunacious
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#22, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-12-02 at 06:43 PM
In response to message #21
Bill
I have a partner in the boat he is a certified Master mech. And he works at the shop that sold me the motor.I guess that answers the question on who will do the work.
If you are going to have a partner in a boat my friend Marc is the one to have. He and I have been friends for 20 years now. He is the best mech I have ever met.
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#23, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Sleigher on Jun-20-02 at 10:00 AM
In response to message #0
Did you get your prop back yet?
I am interested in hearing your results.
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#24, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-20-02 at 01:02 PM
In response to message #23
No not yet it was do in on tueasday of this week they did not get to it maybe today I havent heard anything yet. I will let you know ASAP
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#25, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-21-02 at 03:51 PM
In response to message #24
Prop is back we will be giving it a try on Sunday
Fingers are crossed
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#26, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-23-02 at 07:02 AM
In response to message #25
OK
We have run the boat with the cupped prop and this is the result
The prop has been changed from 18x21 no cup to 18 x 23 cupped
Top rpm is still to high we went to the rev limt 3650
However
At 2,800 we were running 18 knt.
at 3,650 we made 28 knots
She picked up very nice
We are thinking of running with this prop for awile to see how she runs under a full load. At the time of the test we had 1/2 tank of fuel we did fill the bait tank not much in the way of gear so under a full load she will slow a bit.
I think we will need a little more cup and it should be perfict
I am very happy with the results and the feel of the boat. She is running just about the speed she did with the gas motor. Very smooth acceleration If we can maintain 18 knot at that rpm under a load I dont think we can ask for more.
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#27, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Sleigher on Jun-24-02 at 10:21 AM
In response to message #26
Sounds pretty good to me.
At those speeds you would be running circles around me.
Congratulations.
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#28, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-24-02 at 05:33 PM
In response to message #26
Russ,
Looks like you have a good combination. You really need to fill the fuel tank, the bait tank and have at least three guys on the boat when you check how it runs. An extra 800 lbs might make a difference in your performance. Most diesels don't like to be overloaded.
Did you make any notes for other rpms, like 3000 and 3200. I guess you might get 20 knots at 3000 or 3100.
A suggestion I heard from Seaboard Marine is to document your performance numbers when the engine is brand new. It might be helpful in the future to have this information.
My brother and I would like to take a look at your boat sometime if you don't mind.
And congratulations on your 'New' boat.
Bill on Tunacious
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#29, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-24-02 at 08:18 PM
In response to message #28
We will be in Dana Point for the weekend of the fourth I will come by if you guys are are going to be in your slip.
We had the bait tank full when we made the speed runs I think we will need a little more cup to get RPM down to 3300 but for now we are going to run her and see what its does under a full load.
3000 we pulled 20 k
3300 25
3650 28
With only 10 hours on the motor we did not stay at 3650 for long I think we could have played with the tabs and raised the speed a little.
My goal is 18 k at 2600 to 2800 under a full load I dont think this is going to be a problem.
Let me know if you will be around that weekend and I will come by I would like to get a good look at yours. You guys have done a great job she looks very nice.
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#30, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by sharkwaters on Jun-24-02 at 09:09 PM
In response to message #29
Russ, I'm Bill's brother Bob. We're twins, so we confuse alot of people. I have been keeping up on your progress and happy to see it doing so well. Its a job we would like to do. Cruising at 18 + kts is great. I will be at Dana on the fourth with my son ( 15 months ) and wife. Its crowded, so get there early. You should have seen our boat when we bought it, what a wreck. But it cleaned up good and its very fishable now. More speed would be a benefit on the long trips to the tuna grounds.
Bob on TUNACIOUS
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#31, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-25-02 at 05:21 PM
In response to message #29
Sounds good on those speed figures. I just found my literature on this engine. IT has a max rpm of 3300. I thought it was 3600. You are correct. You need more cup to bring the rpm down some.
The 2600 rpm range looks like it will be right where the engine is making the power. This would be my target as well.
I will be at the dock in Dana as well. We are located in B-36. First slip along the walkway. There is room to tie another boat between ours and our neighbors.
Look forward to seeing the boat and meeting a fellow BOCA member.
Bill on Tunacious
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#32, RE: Re Power
Posted by Old_Blue on Jul-14-03 at 10:01 PM
In response to message #0
Hey Russ, what was the final outcome? It sounded like you may have been in for an 18-20 kt cruise. Wellllll?????? Hows it running and what are the numbers!
Brian
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#33, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jul-15-03 at 07:37 AM
In response to message #32
Yes we run 17 to 18 at 2700 and 18 to 20 at 3000
very happy with the motor we have 400 hour on her now we are getting around 2.5 mpg
Posted by Tuba8 on May-17-02 at 09:37 AM
We received the motor yesturday and will start the removal and install this weekend I will post some pictures if anyone is interested.
Wish me luck
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#1, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-17-02 at 06:51 PM
In response to message #0
Send me as many pics as you can and I'll post them on the project page.
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#2, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-24-02 at 09:19 AM
In response to message #1
Nomad
Did you receive the photos I sent on Monday?
We should have the motor instalation completed this weekend.
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#3, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-24-02 at 02:08 PM
In response to message #2
Got the pictures. Was a crazy week with travel and all. Plan to update the site this weekend. Thanks for the pictures!
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#4, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-25-02 at 02:33 PM
In response to message #0
Russ, Refresh my memory. Are you repowering from 260 gas to 240 yanmar diesel? If so, I'm interested in this project. My brother and I came close to buying a 26 billfisher with inboard gas like you have. Maybe the same boat, red trim- located in marina del rey. Anyway, our boat the TUNACIOUS has a old 41a diesel that runs great, but is slow ( 15.8 kts ) fully loaded. What shop is doing the repower?
Are you staying with the 1 1/4" shaft? What gear are you using and which ratio. What size exhaust? What size for cooling water hose? Did I miss any pertinant questions? Let me know. I would like to check out the job. You can Email me sharkwaters@earthlink.net
Thanks and good luck on this project.
Bob Waters TUNACIOUS
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#5, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-25-02 at 05:31 PM
In response to message #4
To answer some of you questions no this is not the same boat I found this one in Newpot and it has gray trim.
Yes we are going from 260 Volvo Gas to the Yanmar 240 the shaft is 1 1/4 and we are staying with it.
The exaust is 4'' the raw water intake is 1 1/2''
Gear ratio we went with is 2 to 1
The yanmar is shorter than the Volvo you have and should fit fine.
My partner and I will be doing all the work he is a boat mechanic
He works at the Anchor in the Reseda they have been kind enought to allow us to use the yard for a few days.
The motor is in now and we are in the prosses of hooking up all the hoses and such . It should be ready to run next weekend. The prop is the next big question no one seems to know what prop to use. Its has a 18 x 16 three blade now we are going to try it and see what the resuls are. We can change the pitch but dont have room to go larger.
If you have any question you want to ask me please feel free to call me at (909) 830-8383
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#6, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-25-02 at 06:03 PM
In response to message #5
Check out the picture gallery of repowering the TIME OUT!
http://www.followingsea.net/Projects.htm
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#7, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-26-02 at 11:48 AM
In response to message #5
Hi Russ, Thanks for the return message. I saw the pics, Looks great. With 18" D, you may have to try a 4 blade wheel. You get more surface area for the diameter. Diesels are very sensitive to correct prop loading and must be able to run up to a specific rpm when fully loaded. I'm sure your friend and the yanmar people are aware of this. Check out boatdiesel.com. This site has a pretty good prop calculator that has the ability to change variables and get different results. I'm very curious to see what speed you get at cruise rpm. I think you will be very happy with the new package.
Thanks Bob TUNACIOUS
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#8, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-27-02 at 10:39 AM
In response to message #7
Just a note on our progress
The motor is in. We had to cut the rear motor mount blocks 1.5"
And add 1" to the front to line the motor with the shaft. The motor is bolted in. The shaft is connected and the wiring harness is in and hooked up. We completed the hoses and fuel lines late Sunday afternoon. We changed the sea strainer to 1 1/2" and had to move all the pumps of course everything on this motor is on the other side from the Volvo. The big moment came at 4pm Sunday we put 20 gallons of fuel in the tank pumped up the filters and injector pump. I turned the key and she fired on the first revolution it purs nice no leeks.
I think we are ready to put her in the water and figure out the prop.
The motor fits in the compartment front rear with room to spair side to side is great. Top to bottom is very close the hatch insulation touches the bleader bolt on top the fuel filter. Very quit compared to the gas motor.
Its to crowded to try to deal with the prop on Monday at the local ramp it will have to wait for next weekend.
Thats all for now
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#9, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-27-02 at 12:58 PM
In response to message #8
Russ,Alright, Now you're ready for some fun. The mount height issue was the question I forgot to ask about. Do you have room to take pics of your solution? How close did you couple the engine. My 41a only has around 4" from the trans flange to the packing gland, so its tight back there. Are you leaving on the trailer or will you be in a slip. Dana West 'B' dock has 3 blackmans in there now, always room for more.
Bob W TUNACIOUS
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#10, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-27-02 at 03:44 PM
In response to message #9
Bob
I will take a measurment for you and post it on tuesday. Are you thinking of using the Yanmar? If so you will have all the room you need, the motor is much shorter than the Volvo, 41 inches from front to back. The problem was the motor was to short to reach the the flange on the shaft by 1 1/4 inches. I could not slide the motor back and still use the mounts builtup off the stringers. Your blocks will be in a defferent location. Don makes each boat according to the motor it was ordered with. Look at the picture posted with out the motor and tell me if your block are in the same place. I will give you the location of my blocks on Tuesday. We had to use an isolator to take up the space between the trans flang and the shaft.
As for the slip Kelly tells me it will be at least 6 months for me to get a slip. So I will be looking for a slip in Alimeda Bay. Mty partner lives in the valley so thats kind of half way for both of us.
If anyone can help with a slip in that area please let me know. I plan on using the trailer to follow the fish as much as I can.
Talk to you later
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#11, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-28-02 at 04:01 PM
In response to message #10
My partner marc could not wait for next weekend
Late Monday he took the boat to oxnard and launched her.
The motor ran perfict. The prop is not correct of course top speed was 19k. at 3500 rpm.
He putted over to Anacapa Island at 12k put 3 hours on the hour meter
No leaks very smooth no vibrations not as loud as the V8 was.
We are going to try a 18 x 18 four blade. If anyone is interested fuel price in oxnard is 1.25 - 1.20 if you buy more than 150 gallons.
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#12, RE: Re Power
Posted by Nomad on May-28-02 at 07:25 PM
In response to message #11
Congratulations on a sucessful sea trial Russ. I love it when a project goes right the first time around!
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#13, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on May-28-02 at 08:35 PM
In response to message #12
Russ, Yeah, we are interested in the yanmar. I'm alfraid we have to nurse the volvo for awhile. We dumped a ton of money on new tower, electronics, eisenglass, bait tank, and caught up on alot of overdue maintenance. Everything runs perfect. We just want to go faster than 15+ kts. Its a bummer when you're on the fly at 2pm, the fish are there and the gps says 67 or so nmiles to Dana Pt, and 3200 rpm gets you 15.8 kts. I never studied the yanmar mount locations, although unless the shaft is replaced or use a isolator as you did, the engine must be moved back to the shaft- I guess. Does your guage panel have exhaust gas temp or turbo boost guages? Is 3500 rpm the rated WOT rpm for the engine?
Thanks again, congratulations and good luck with the prop.
Bob W TUNACIOUS
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#14, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on May-31-02 at 05:00 PM
In response to message #13
No the panel does not have gages for the gases and so on it has a bank a warning lights and buzzers I am not sure I will add them or not.
I have not had the time to do the measurment this week I will do it this weekend and post it for you.
We have ordered a prop its a 18 x 21 four blade everyone seems to think it will be correct. We should have it the middle of next week.
From what the owners man. tells us we should run the motor at 2800 to 3000 rpm
the top rpm is 3500 with this prop we should be in the 19 knot range at 2800 my fingers are crossed.
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#15, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-02-02 at 04:43 PM
In response to message #14
Ok Bob I have the measurments for the mounts
Measuring from the forward bulkhead back to the forward motor mount we have 16" to the center of the mount and 9" above the stringer to the center of the mount.
The forward and rear mounts are 25" apart and the rear mount is 5 3/4" abouve the stringer.
Hope this helps Let me know
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#16, RE: Re Power
Posted by sharkwaters on Jun-04-02 at 08:46 PM
In response to message #15
Russ, Thanks for the numbers, this helps alot. I saved the pics of the engine and enlarged with software. My mounts are alot further apart, because the 41 is long. But it is doable. Just for curiousity sake, where did you buy your engine? Did you get on the water this weekend? My dock neighbor in Dana Point thinks he met you at B dock in the west basin a few weeks ago. He has a 1992 billfisher with red trim and a 41B diesel inboard. Our boat is a express, many people don't know its a blackman. Keep us posted on the 4 blade prop trial. What speed are you expecting? Personally I would love 20kts or more.
Bob TUNACIOUS
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#17, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-05-02 at 07:02 PM
In response to message #16
Yes I did meet your neighbor on B dock my brother lives on his boat on b dock.
We are hoping for 19 to 20. The prop will be ready to pick up tomorrow. I am roofing my house this weekend and next. My partner will be doing the testing Saturday. I will let you know what the results are ASAP.
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#18, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-10-02 at 03:55 PM
In response to message #17
Well we installed the new prop and gave it a try Sunday.
with the 18 x 16 three blade we hit the rev limit and top speed was 19 knots.
With the 18 x 21 four blade we hit the rev limit and the speed was the same 19 knots
If anyone knows anything about this what I just said makes no sence.
3700 rpm with the 18 x 16 19 knots
3700 rpm with the 18 x 21 19 knots
I dont know maybe the gearing is wrong Don suggested I go with 1.5 to 1 everyone else said 2 to 1 I went with the 2 to 1 (might have been a mistake)
Any suggestions??
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#19, RE: Re Power
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-11-02 at 06:49 PM
In response to message #18
Correctly propping an engine is a mystery to me. I ran some numbers for you on the boatdiesel site. There are so many variables here. One of the biggest is the hull form. Is a 26 Blackman a 'slow or average planning hull'? The numbers we have on our boat indicate the 26 Blackman is a slow planning hull.
Do you know how much your boat actually weighs? Running weight, full of fuel, full bait system water, full passengers and full of all of the junk we all store on our boats.
Here are the numbers I used.
Hull form: Slow Planing
Weight: 9000 lbs
Length at waterline: 25 ft
Engine: 1
Max output: 240 (Metric HP)
Max RPM: 3600
Duty Rating: Pleasure
Transmission: Straight Drive
Ratio: 2.0:1
Propellor: 18 inch
Blades: 4
Here is what their calculator turned out.
Max Speed: 21.6 kts
Cruise Speed: 18 Kts
Cruise RPM: 2520??????
Recommended prop: 18.6 x 18.9, 4 blade
Doesn't sound too good?
Simply changing the hull form to 'Average Planing' and the waterline length to 26 feet. (waterline length didn't make much difference)gave the following results.
Max Speed: 24.8 kts
Cruise Speed: 20.7 Kts
Cruise RPM: 2520??????
Recommended prop: 18.6 x 21.3, 4 blade
I like this much better and I bet you do too. The most efficient gear ratio for this combination is 1.6:1 but also recommends a 16 X 17 inch prop.
I wish I knew more about how these prop calculators worked and how to determine which hull shape to use.
From a practical standpoint, How does the engine sound and feel? Does it feel like the engine is being loaded or not? My guess is it is not being loaded enough. Does it feel like it has to work a little to get to max rpm? Your slip ratio is probably pretty high. I think you need to add some cup to the prop. Cup will make a big difference in loading the engine. You are not in the position to add diameter and you already have a lot of pitch and with a 4 blade prop you have surface area as well. It might take a couple of tries to get the correct amount of cup in the prop. It took us three tries to get it right.
Let me know if any of these numbers are incorrect and I will run them again.
Good luck
Bill on Tunacious
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#20, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-11-02 at 07:07 PM
In response to message #19
Thank you Bill for that info
No the motor does not feel like its under much of s load at all. More than it did with 18 x 16 the turbo sounds a little louder with the four blade. I cant go any larger 18.5 will not fit we have the min. clearance with the 18
I sent the prop out today the prop man is going to add cup and a litte pitch. I will keep my fingers crossed I dont want to change gears.
Fully loaded she tips the scales at around 8,800 lbs. maybe a little more.
Thanks again I will keep you posted
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#21, RE: Re Power
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-12-02 at 05:29 PM
In response to message #20
More questions
Do you have to have your installation certified by a local Yanmar rep for warranty considerations? If so, who is going to do the work?
Who do you have lined up do the maintenance and repair work? I understand having good local support is very important.
Once you have the proping correct, I'd like to know what your fuel consumption is?
Thanks
Bill on Tunacious
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#22, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-12-02 at 06:43 PM
In response to message #21
Bill
I have a partner in the boat he is a certified Master mech. And he works at the shop that sold me the motor.I guess that answers the question on who will do the work.
If you are going to have a partner in a boat my friend Marc is the one to have. He and I have been friends for 20 years now. He is the best mech I have ever met.
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#23, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Sleigher on Jun-20-02 at 10:00 AM
In response to message #0
Did you get your prop back yet?
I am interested in hearing your results.
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#24, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-20-02 at 01:02 PM
In response to message #23
No not yet it was do in on tueasday of this week they did not get to it maybe today I havent heard anything yet. I will let you know ASAP
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#25, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-21-02 at 03:51 PM
In response to message #24
Prop is back we will be giving it a try on Sunday
Fingers are crossed
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#26, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-23-02 at 07:02 AM
In response to message #25
OK
We have run the boat with the cupped prop and this is the result
The prop has been changed from 18x21 no cup to 18 x 23 cupped
Top rpm is still to high we went to the rev limt 3650
However
At 2,800 we were running 18 knt.
at 3,650 we made 28 knots
She picked up very nice
We are thinking of running with this prop for awile to see how she runs under a full load. At the time of the test we had 1/2 tank of fuel we did fill the bait tank not much in the way of gear so under a full load she will slow a bit.
I think we will need a little more cup and it should be perfict
I am very happy with the results and the feel of the boat. She is running just about the speed she did with the gas motor. Very smooth acceleration If we can maintain 18 knot at that rpm under a load I dont think we can ask for more.
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#27, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Sleigher on Jun-24-02 at 10:21 AM
In response to message #26
Sounds pretty good to me.
At those speeds you would be running circles around me.
Congratulations.
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#28, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-24-02 at 05:33 PM
In response to message #26
Russ,
Looks like you have a good combination. You really need to fill the fuel tank, the bait tank and have at least three guys on the boat when you check how it runs. An extra 800 lbs might make a difference in your performance. Most diesels don't like to be overloaded.
Did you make any notes for other rpms, like 3000 and 3200. I guess you might get 20 knots at 3000 or 3100.
A suggestion I heard from Seaboard Marine is to document your performance numbers when the engine is brand new. It might be helpful in the future to have this information.
My brother and I would like to take a look at your boat sometime if you don't mind.
And congratulations on your 'New' boat.
Bill on Tunacious
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#29, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Tuba8 on Jun-24-02 at 08:18 PM
In response to message #28
We will be in Dana Point for the weekend of the fourth I will come by if you guys are are going to be in your slip.
We had the bait tank full when we made the speed runs I think we will need a little more cup to get RPM down to 3300 but for now we are going to run her and see what its does under a full load.
3000 we pulled 20 k
3300 25
3650 28
With only 10 hours on the motor we did not stay at 3650 for long I think we could have played with the tabs and raised the speed a little.
My goal is 18 k at 2600 to 2800 under a full load I dont think this is going to be a problem.
Let me know if you will be around that weekend and I will come by I would like to get a good look at yours. You guys have done a great job she looks very nice.
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#30, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by sharkwaters on Jun-24-02 at 09:09 PM
In response to message #29
Russ, I'm Bill's brother Bob. We're twins, so we confuse alot of people. I have been keeping up on your progress and happy to see it doing so well. Its a job we would like to do. Cruising at 18 + kts is great. I will be at Dana on the fourth with my son ( 15 months ) and wife. Its crowded, so get there early. You should have seen our boat when we bought it, what a wreck. But it cleaned up good and its very fishable now. More speed would be a benefit on the long trips to the tuna grounds.
Bob on TUNACIOUS
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#31, RE: Re Power-cupping props
Posted by Saltwaters on Jun-25-02 at 05:21 PM
In response to message #29
Sounds good on those speed figures. I just found my literature on this engine. IT has a max rpm of 3300. I thought it was 3600. You are correct. You need more cup to bring the rpm down some.
The 2600 rpm range looks like it will be right where the engine is making the power. This would be my target as well.
I will be at the dock in Dana as well. We are located in B-36. First slip along the walkway. There is room to tie another boat between ours and our neighbors.
Look forward to seeing the boat and meeting a fellow BOCA member.
Bill on Tunacious
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#32, RE: Re Power
Posted by Old_Blue on Jul-14-03 at 10:01 PM
In response to message #0
Hey Russ, what was the final outcome? It sounded like you may have been in for an 18-20 kt cruise. Wellllll?????? Hows it running and what are the numbers!
Brian
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#33, RE: Re Power
Posted by Tuba8 on Jul-15-03 at 07:37 AM
In response to message #32
Yes we run 17 to 18 at 2700 and 18 to 20 at 3000
very happy with the motor we have 400 hour on her now we are getting around 2.5 mpg